Success Coach And Performance Expert Nicky Billou You can't win the race if you don't know where the finish line is or the hurdles you have to clear to get...
And Flipping The Gratitude Switch With Kevin Clayson
There is no shortage of competition in the small business world and being able to stand out is a constant challenge. If you are a small business selling something that many others in your area also sell the challenge can be compounded that much further.
In today’s podcast I chat with Kevin who digs in deep on how to break out of the mold and find your own voice. He also talks about how to flip the gratitude switch, the subject of his new book. This is a new way of dealing with employees, customers, vendors and even friends and family that will vastly improve your interactions and the way they in turn react and treat you back. Powerful stuff from an experienced entrepreneur!
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Listen right here:
Matt: Welcome to the Entrepreneur Talk Podcast. Today, it is my extreme pleasure to introduce Kevin Clayson. You can find him at kevinclayson.com. He just told me off the air that he got a tremendous gift to share with us today which is I am very grateful and very thankful for that. But before we get into that, Kevin, if you could just kind of take a minute and give us some of your background and how you got to where you are today so the audience can get to know a little better that would be a great place to start.
Kevin: Well, awesome! First of all, Matt, thank you so much for having me on. For anybody listening, thanks for tuning in. you got a good man and a good podcast here. I kind of got to know him off the air. Matt, you’re doing some really great things. So, it’s just an honor to be with you. As far as who I am and how I got here, it has all been based on my incredibly good looks. That’s really it.
Matt: I got your picture here. I mean, he’s speaking the truth.
Kevin: I am the most attractive semi-chubby white kid you’re ever going to see. Let me tell you. I’m just kidding. I grew up in California. I know you’re in California. I grew up in the Bay Area and grew up in a household. My parents are awesome but it was very much that household that was kind of “You go to school so that you could go get a job and have a really conservative life [inaudible 0:03:27.8].” my parents really never thought outside of that. It’s not that it’s their fault. Most people don’t think outside of that. It’s kind of the environment I grew up in. I went to school and got good grades. I ended up going to school for a year in California. I went to Germany and I served the mission for my church for 2 years. While I was on that mission, I met a couple of guys who became really good friends. When I got home from that mission that I served in Germany, I ended up moving to Utah totally unexpectedly. I never thought I’d be in Utah but here I was going to school, finishing my education in Utah and couple of years after, that I worked a lot of retail and been a retail management. I had gone through divorce and thought “Gosh. I guess I need to rethink my life. This isn’t working.” I thought I was going to be a Political Science Major in the Law School into a profession of Law and I was going to work retail in the background. Is that what’s happening? When I went to my divorce, everything kind of shifted for me. I sort of re-thought it all. I ended up entering the work force in a different way. I ended up entering the work force kind of in financial services and mortgages. That lead me to re-unite with my friends that I met on the mission. We started a company in 2007 called Strong Brook. Back then, it was called REIC or the Real Estate Investors Club. It’s evolved into Strong Brook. We’ve been an operation for nearly a decade. We’ve transacted nearly a half a million dollars in single family residential, individual transactions without clients. We own financial services company. We own insurance companies. We own actually a whole network that trains people on mindset called the Mentoring Network. We got a variety of events that we do. It’s been a really incredible ride. It provided a lot of great experience and recently, just to kind of wrap up the story, recently, I felt really inspired to even lead that company that I’ve been working in and growing for a long time to focus on what I feel like my real-life’s mission is which is a book that I just wrote that’s coming out very soon called Flipping the Gratitude Switch. It just shares 4 really simple steps or really simple formula so you can kind of take control of your life again and you never have to have a bad day again. I find business owners are in need of this tremendously because there are these little things that come up out of the day. It can ruin relationship you have with your employees. It can ruin the relationship that you have with the customers and I was really blessed to find a really simple formula that’s worked for me, that’s transformed my business, my marriage, the way I interacted with my kids. I just poured into a really great book. We kind of launch a little movement with it, sort of unexpectedly. It’s starting to really grow like WildFire. So now, that’s what I do. I spend a lot of time speaking in high schools, middle schools, teach them as I speak, incorporations, and teach them this. It has really become sort of a central thing that I get to focus on day in and day out. I absolutely love it.
Matt: Wow! That sounds like quite a journey. It’s funny you should mention your upbringing. I have the exact same experience in that my parents were very much “You go to school. You get a job. That’s how you’re successful in life.” What’s ironic to me is my grandfather – my father’s dad – was also an entrepreneur. He had many business and actual retired in his early 40s. So, you would think with my Dad having seeing that, he wouldn’t have been so; he’s not that he was anti-entrepreneur; he was just “You go and you get a job. You get a salary. In your spare time, if you’re still interested and have energy, then you can work on that hobby of yours that you want to start a business.” it was not really encouraged in our house but it was what I had to be anyway. I went to college and came out and had a job for a while. But in the end, I just had to do my own thing.
Kevin: You know what’s funny about that? My dad. This is interesting about my dad. Maybe some of the listeners, maybe you have a similar experience. So, my dad always I think have this deep desire to be an entrepreneur but he never knew what it took. It never really had I think the educational or any example in his life that said “Here’s how you go and make a leap.” But he’s always kind of been a guy who wanted to try to find sideways to earn a little income. He would sign up for MOM and stuff like that just because there was always a desire there. I think the desire wasn’t so much about being his own business owner as it was feeling like he was in control of the income that he could create for our family but just wasn’t ever really able to find it. So, as I kind of entered this entrepreneurial world, my parents were really supportive. I’m thankful for that. I’m thankful that they didn’t just go “You should just get a job.” I’m glad that they we’re like, “You know Kev, we trust you. Go for it.” They come out and hear me speak. They’ve been out to our national conventions that we’ve done for our company. I think they like to view it from a distance but it was just never part of their DNA. I feel like I had to inject into my own DNA. Now, it would be passed on for generations I hope. With my kids, we teach them entrepreneurial principles right now right away because I feel like that is so vital to their ability to succeed as humans. Anyway, it has been a really fun journey.
Matt: Well, I think, now is always the right time to go out on your own if that’s what you want to do. But, now, more than ever, I think there’s so much information out there. There’s so much help. There’s so much education available that didn’t used to be. There’s really no reason to feel like you’re alone or you’re starting your own thing these days. There’s just so much help. So, I want to jump over to some of the things we have talked about but before we even get to talking about those things, just the flipping the gratitude switch, that sounds like a phenomenal idea. I was wondering if you could share a little bit more about what that means and how it works. It sounds like something tons of small business owners that I talk to could take advantage off.
Kevin: Yeah. I’ll give you a little bit of the background of that story. I got to a place as an entrepreneur. We’ve all been there. I was kind of in the dark place. It was like I was working my guts out but the income wasn’t matching the effort. I don’t know if you ever felt like that as an entrepreneur. You feel like “Oh my gosh! I’m pouring all the stuff in here and the money is not really there.” At that time, I was doing a lot of traveling all over the country for our company speaking all over the place and trying to really grow the brand and grow the company; we had a new baby at home. He was in the NICU for the first couple of weeks. I did get remarried, by the way. We glossed over that. I got remarried to the most incredible woman. We got 3 beautiful little babies now – 7, 4 and 2 years old. At that time, my 4 year-old was just a baby. He was in the NICU and wouldn’t sleep through the night after we got him home. I would go on to these trips, pouring all these work during the week, then, I go on to these business trips which anybody out there that travels for business, it is far from glamorous. It is just hotel after hotel and airport after airport, restaurant after restaurant which may sound awesome until you do it for like a week. I would come home and I would stay up all night with my son because I wanted my wife to get some rest. I was exhausted, Matt. I was just done. I didn’t feel like we were achieving the success we wanted. I was really tired. I just kind of was drained. For me, I just went “Maybe this is all wrong. Maybe I just need to get out of the entrepreneurial game. Maybe it just doesn’t work for me.” it was in that moment of kind of despair and kind of feeling like all was sort of lost for me in this journey that I embarked on that I had this thought come to my mind. I remember the talk that I heard out of an event. I love going on to seminars, events, live events. I love to learn and implement the things that I learned. I’ve heard Darren Hardy from Success Magazine share a little kind of anecdote that he done where he kept this thing called the Gratitude Journal for his wife every day for like a year and then he gave it to her, which is by the way is like the number 1 way to be in the good grace of your wife. He talked about that so here I was in the moment of feeling like “Ugh! I don’t know what to do.” I remember that talk and I went “You know what? All the stuff that I’ve learned on personal development isn’t working. I’ve doing munches. They’re not working. I’m trying to visualize and affirmations. I just feel like I’m hitting the wall. Maybe there’s something in this idea of gratitude.” Well, I embarked on a journey and what I ultimately discovered is that gratitude is something you do not just something that you feel. When gratitude becomes an active part of your daily experience, your life begins to shift. What I ended up doing is I started to call it “Flipping the Gratitude Switch” because what would happen is as frustrations would come up, I would find a way to deal with it in the moment and find a way to sort of what I called “Flip the Gratitude Switch” and become thankful for the frustration. What happened is I started to change the way I interacted with everyone and everything around me. Coming from that space, I started to just talk about it with people. I go and I speak. It would just kind of naturally come up. I kept getting so many people approaching me, e-mailing me, calling me, Facebook-ing me saying “Kevin, you got to write a book about this thing. What you said, I tried it and it really made a difference for me.” I kind of accidentally stepped into this thing and ended up writing the book. What I came up with, I’ll go over really briefly, is what I call the Flip Formula. It’s FLIP. I created an acronym of it. It really is literally what I do to flip the gratitude switch. What happens is whenever a frustration comes up, a lot of us love to kind of take that frustration and sort of we just let it pass by; We don’t realize how it’s affecting us. The employee didn’t show up on time. We asked the employee to do this and they didn’t get it done or whatever. I mean, it could be anything right? The web guys told us they have our new website done last week. It’s still not done. There’s all of these, even little things like this guy cut me off on the freeway, this woman cut me in line at the store in a hurry to get back into a meeting, or whatever, there’s all these tiny frustrations. As apparent, you get a lot of them. What I found is that in the moment that the frustration came up, if I just let it wash over me, it can impact my day. But what if I take that moment and I isolate it and I do some work on it. That’s the “F” in Flipping the Gratitude Switch in the FLIP Formula. You find the frustration. The minute that the frustration comes up, you isolate it. You acknowledge that you’re frustrated. You acknowledge what you’re frustrated about. Now that you’ve isolated it and acknowledge it, it becomes a singular do that you can do some work on it. It’s not just this sort of nebulist thing that’s taking place. Once you find the frustration, you move to “L”. “L” is to look for what’s awesome inside of that frustration. So, you find a frustration, you look for what’s awesome. Looking for what’s awesome could be something like; I’ll give you an example. Let’s say you’ve got an employee and they are not performing the way you want them to perform. This is something I’m sure we’ve all dealt as business owners. They are not performing the way you want them to perform. That’s frustrating to you. So, how do you look for what’s awesome? You know what, this may seem kind of corny and silly but they at least showed up to work today. You could’ve hired somebody that didn’t show up and it would’ve maybe even more difficulties to go and find somebody else and then what if that person is a failure for you as well? The other thing that is awesome is not only did they showed up but while they may not have done the task that you wanted them to do the way you wanted them to do it in the moment have they still done something for you that’s at least necessitated you giving him a check. They still help your business in some way even if it’s not ideal. You go through it and then what happens is once you find what’s awesome and better than the frustration, it spins off and everything else spins off. It’s like “Whoa! This employee, I’m frustrated with him. But you know what? At least he showed up for work today. You know what? Gosh! At least I have employees. Why do I have place? People actually want what I’ve got. I get to wake up every day and command my own destiny.” What happens is you go to this process and looking for what’s awesome spins off all the other things that are actually kind of really good right now and it was all sparked by finding and isolating that frustration. Then, you move on to “I”. “I” is where you initiate gratitude. Now that you’ve found what’s awesome, you actually choose to feel the gratitude for it. I say you activate gratitude. You initiate gratitude. It becomes practice-able. “And you know what? I’m actually really thankful that I got this employee.” What happens when you use those words and you actually can feel the “Thank you” not just say the “Thank you” but actually feel it, you’re body changes. You’re body releases that chemical called dopamine and that moves us to “P” which is Power up! With what I call GratiFuel. I think gratitude can fuel business and gratitude can fuel life. So, when you find the frustration and you look for what’s awesome and you initiate gratitude right there, you’re body floods with dopamine and it powers you up and kind of powers you through so that you’re at least feeling completely different. The way that you interact with that employee now, you’re frustrated with them but what if you just acknowledge the work that they did yesterday or earlier today and say “Hey! I want you to know from what you did yesterday. It really helped me out a lot. On this thing right here, could we maybe just have you do this a little bit different? Or this a little bit different?” why could you do that? Because you got to a place where your body is flooded with dopamine. You actually felt gratitude and it changes your body chemistry. It changes the way you interact with people and with life. And now, how much more likely is that employee to go and work for you as oppose to they walk in the door and go “Seriously, Bob? How many times have I told you this is the way it needs to be done? You’re an absolute idiot. Go back to your cubicle and get it done right! Don’t come in here again until it’s done right.” Now, how much more likely are you going to be to have a productive Bob if you approach him like “Hey! Thanks for doing that thing. Could we maybe just change this? I really appreciate you doing this.” Versus “Hey! You idiot. Go back there and do it right.” If you could interact with your business and your people and your customers that way, by flipping the gratitude switch when those little frustrations show up, you’re back in control of your business, back in control of your emotions, back in control of your happiness which fuels additional success. That’s just what I found out, what I started to use, it just changed everything for me. As we’ve been sharing this all over the country, we’ve seen it change a lot of other people in other industries – everything from first responders and ER Doctors to business owners and entrepreneurs, to moms and dads. I mean, it’s really incredible having this simple little flipping of the gratitude switch, this internal thing you can do to activate gratitude can change the entire trajectory of the moment and really a day which ultimately changes the trajectory of the business.
Matt: Wow! That definitely sounds like a powerful technique. What I was thinking while I was listening to you kind of explain it is that what it sounds like to me is you take what could potentially be a lot of negative energy, you know, you’re frustrated, you turn it around on the employee. Now, they are frustrated and negative. That’s the kind of thing that can ripple forward. Now, you’re mad at somebody else. Now, you cut somebody off because you’re mad but you’re not really mad at them. So, you flipped it all around and taken all what could’ve been a negative energy that’s spread out and turned it into positive energy that spreads out. Now, people are more likely to hold the door for somebody because they had a good day. They had a good interaction. So, it’s paying it forward way beyond just that one incident that you decided to treat as a positive vs. a negative. So, I can definitely see the power in the whole interaction.
Kevin: You know, it’s been really cool. It’s been really cool to watch in the simplicity of it. Right? The cool thing is when you flipped the gratitude switch, you have the ability to do it right now in this moment. You don’t have to pay anything. Right? You have all the tools and power right now in this moment regardless of what happens around you to do something with it. Everybody says make lemonades out of lemons. People say find the silver lining. But those kinds of concepts while I think they are good in theory, how many people actually do it? this, for me, what happens is when that frustrations shows up it sort of signals now me that I can do some work on it and change that moment and change that interaction as oppose to just thinking that at the end of the day “Oh! You know, it’s kind of a bad day. But let me try and see if I can make tomorrow better. Let’s become present in this moment and do something now.” That literally does ripple in such powerful way. You can change an entire company culture if you as the leader would have showed up in that way. That company culture shift will increase productivity and it will increase profit if you could show up and be that type of leader for your people and be that example and give them the tools so that they can do it too. We’ve seen it shift our culture. It’s been really powerful.
Matt: That sounds awesome! I’m definitely looking forward to checking out the book when it’s available and obviously sharing the link with the audience so they can check it out as well. Man, I’m really glad we covered that even though it wasn’t necessarily on the agenda for the discussion today. That sounds like such a powerful concept. But let me just shift gears a little bit because one of the main things that I wanted to have you share with the audience was your experience and this is something we talked a little bit about before we got into it. how do you take somebody who’s got a sort of run-of-the-mill business or in their mind, it’s sort of –run-of-the-mill business, and help them find a brand and a voice so that they can then kind of dominate the marketing and stand out from the crowd and be able to attract business and customers and success by virtue of being different and not just one of a huge number, not just another dentist, not just another an auto-repair shop because I know that’s something you spend a lot of time coaching and focusing on and one of the skills that you help entrepreneurs finding themselves is how to differentiate. So, what thoughts do you have on that that you could share with the audience today because I know that’s a struggle a lot of them kind of have?
Kevin: Yeah. You know, what a great question. What a powerful topic to cover. By the way, we mentioned this earlier, I’ll just kind of share it now. I actually did an audio program. It’s a 7-hour audio program that covers a remarkable amount of really good content. Right at the beginning of the audio program, I actually talk quite a bit in-depth about this sort of idea. This is a program that we retail through one of my companies at $200. We’re going to give it through your audience because as you and I were talking before we started this podcast, I just felt sort of inspired and give that away. We’re going to give that to everybody so that they can listen to all of it or some of it and take some of these ideas so they can really – I go into some good examples there and I’ll give some of them here. But I just want to do that for everybody because I think that there’s some value there. Here’s one of the things that I found. If you want to be successful in whatever the profession is that you chose, whatever the business is, you do have to standout. It’s a really noisy world, so how do you stand out? One of the best ways to do that is by having a really strong kind of brand, I guess. Your brand, while you might just think “I am a plumber. How do i have a brand as a plumber?” I think where a lot of people get a twist and get confusion is that just because you say you want to have a strong brand, it’s not just a logo. It’s not just a website. It’s not just some uniform set of colors that are on all your marketing materials. That’s part of the brand but the brand is really what you represent as a service value based organization. That is what that brand becomes. Let’s take the plumber as an example. You may say “I’m a plumber. I’m won’t do anything. I’m just a plumber.” Well, how do you become a better plumber that makes more money than other plumbers and how do you become a higher [inaudible 0:24:10.9] because it’s not really the goal, it’s like you got to go and find clients? We all know the best way to go find clients is through referral and so, how do you create referrals? How many people don’t just think about “I’ve got to be a good plumber. But I’ve got to be a good marketer.” The way of a good marketer is “I’ve got to not only get my message in my company/brand out there, but I’ve got to make sure that the interactions that I have with people that I’m doing plumbing work for is so extraordinary that they can help but refer me to others. And then what if you even detach from that idea and you say “I’m not even going to be attached to how many times my phone is going to ring to go do some plumbing. I’m going to be attached to providing absolutely as much value as possible to the market in any way I can.” Let me give you an example. Let’s say that you’re a plumber and let’s say you’ve seen the plumbing work that others have done and let’s say that you through your process of becoming to be a plumber, you found certain things that a lot of households if they would just do this, that or the other, they wouldn’t need a plumber as often. I know that may seem counter but what if you put together a pamphlet or a brochure, what if you put together a little book, what if you wrote, check this out, what if you wrote a book on plumbing for homes in Cleveland, Ohio, because that’s where you live and that’s where your plumbing business is. What if you took that book and you gave it as a gift to everybody that you could go knock doors and you could give them a flier. The flier may have a website on there where they could go and download this really handy e-book guide on the top 10 things they could do for their home in Cleveland, Ohio, if that’s where you are, right? Because a business like that would be barely geographical, so that you don’t have to call a plumber. You give them this. They may read it. They may not read it but your stuff is on there, your phone number, e-mail, website, it’s on that flier and you give it to them specifically with this idea that you want to provide value for them. Well, the reality is, you and I both know, very few of them would actually open that book and do that top 10 things. But when they have a plumbing problem, are they going to be more less likely to call you who just came by not to win their business but to give them something? Now, what if your brand wasn’t just about “I’m a plumber.” It was about “I’m Cleveland’s Number 1 Plumber in helping homeowners fix the top 10 problems most homes have.” Or whatever that is. That was kind of a long example but the idea is you carve out a niche and you become that niche. Now, you’re still a plumber just like everybody else. But you’re the one that gave them the book, you’re the one that gave them the ideas. You’re the one that gave them the value. What if that little pamphlet or that little book did look just like your website, did look just like your flier, and had the same color scheme? What if you have a little catchy phrase, right? “Cleveland’s Number 1 Plumber for Homes on the Upper-East Side” or I don’t even know if there’s an upper east side in Cleveland, right? I’ve been there 1 time. But I don’t know. Let’s assume there is. If you kind of carve that out, you become more than just another plumber in the yellow pages. You become somebody that’s an expert in an area that has a consistent sort of look and feel across all your materials, you’re not actually in the business of plumbing, you’re in the business of marketing your plumbing services. The way you do that is by communicating the value you give by providing value way before you even ask for anything in return. That just sort of idea can create a brand without you even trying beyond just doing those things.
Matt: Yeah. Definitely some very powerful tips there. I think what surprises people maybe is that it doesn’t have to take a ton of time. It doesn’t require huge investment. It doesn’t require a whole brand strategy theme. It’s just a matter figuring out how you can be different, how you can add some additional value and stand apart from the competition rather than just go in with the hard sell “Hey! I’m here to fix your water heater if you want.” Go in with some free value, some content, some help and then sit back and reap those rewards over time later as people go “Oh! I remember the guy that was here 6 months ago. He had that book. Let’s call him.” It doesn’t have to be complicated or expensive or difficult. You just have to take the time to think about it and do it.
Kevin: Well, let me give you another example with the plumber. So, we got a plumber. Right? This guy, he was referred to us. We needed some plumbing help. He was referred to us because he worked with somebody on our neighborhood that said “This guy was so nice.” He comes over. He does the work. He says “Oh! You know, I thought I was going to have to do, X, Y, and Z. I didn’t have to do these so I’m not going to charge you what I originally said.” We actually charge as less than he told us he was going to charge us. Then, he said, “Let me know if you need anything else.” He gave us this little magnet that we put on our refrigerator. What we remember, this guy was nice. He was quick. He was efficient. He gave us a really easy way to contact him because we have his magnet on our refrigerator and the one or two other times we needed something, guess who we called? We called him. When other people put on Facebook, “Hey! I need a plumber. Do you know anybody?” Guess who we refer? Why? Because he came and provided value. He gave us a good service and then just gave us a little something so that it was easy for us to contact him. That’s creative. Maybe a couple thousand additional dollars in business for him, he wouldn’t have otherwise not given us the magnet and not given us that good experience to start with. Let me give you another example. I call myself the Chief Officer of Awesome. The reason I call myself that is I think it’s just kind of a fun catchy name. It means absolutely nothing except what it does tell you. Chief Officer indicates something maybe having to do with business which I’ve been a business owner. Awesome just sounds fun. It sounds fun to say. What I started to do is I call myself the Chief Officer of Awesome and then I put it on all of my materials. Then, I put it on my website. Then, anytime that somebody introduces me to an audience or when I go speak I say “Hey! Do you mind introducing me as The Chief Officer of Awesome?” Then, when I come to podcasts or something like this, they usually say “Kevin Clayson as America’s Chief Officer of Awesome” Now, when I meet people that I’ve never known and they meet me and say “Oh my gosh! You’re the Chief Officer of Awesome!” How did that happen? Because I said the phrase and I applied to who I was and everything I did. I created a brand around it. I actually have one of my buddies who was a college speaker go and teach a college course on branding at Notre Dame and use me as an example because of this Chief Office of Awesome thing. Now, there’s a whole bunch of students at Notre Dame who found out about Kevin Clayson. They never would’ve found out about me or what I did have they not heard this thing Chief Officer of Awesome. This guy saw that and said “Wow! That’s pretty cool.” So, what did I do? I created a little bit of a brand. Right? That’s kind of who I am now. I represent maybe something awesome. You don’t even know what chief officer of awesome means! You are like “Maybe, he is an awesome podcast guest. Maybe he’s an awesome speaker. Maybe he is an awesome author. Maybe he is just awesome so he is the chief officer of it.” Right? It just kind of created this thing that cost me literally nothing. It was just an idea and a phrase that I began to apply to who I was and what I did. It’s kind of grown into this thing now. It has been really beneficial for me.
Matt: That a great example and very cool to hear! I wish we had more time. I had a feeling we could probably sit here and fill up a couple more hours. But unfortunately, we’ve got to cut it off. But for Kevin, Chief Officer of Awesome, where can people go to find out more about you? Where should they connect with you online?
Kevin: You just go to kevinclayson.com. Its k-e-v-i-n-c-l-a-y-s-o-n dot com. You check me out. I got all kinds of stuff on there. If you want to get – I got a little thing on there – if you want to get 2 free chapters of Flipping the Gratitude Switch, the thing we talked about, you can get that. I got other podcasts and stuff listed on there. If you want to hear me talk other topics, there’s all kinds of stuff including a bunch of videos of me just being crazy under the fun tab. Anyway, that’s the best place to reach me. All my social media stuff is linked up there. Connect with me on Twitter, Facebook and LinkedIn. I love to interact with people in any way I can. If I can service anybody in your audience in any way and provide some value for them, I’d love to do that.
Matt: Well, thank you very much. I definitely appreciate your time. I, for sure, am very grateful for your offer of the audio program to go into a lot more depth in what we just kind of scratch the surface on here. That was a very generous offer. I truly appreciate it. All those links will be on the show notes page. So, thanks again for taking the time. Have a great rest of your day!
Kevin: Hey! Thanks, Matt. I appreciate you.