Starting With $300 and A Can’t Fail Attitude!
The cool thing about this interview is it confirms a lot of what I already believed- that it is easier to start in a business you know, that selling is a key skill, that you don’t need very much money to start and that if you build your business right then pretty soon it hardly needs you at all!
These are all lessons and points of view I discussed with Matt Shoup and he and I came to a lot of the same conclusions- attitude and persistence are the keys to success!
It was really impressive and inspiring to hear how he launched out of his boring desk job and into a business of his own with his back to the wall and virtually no startup capital to speak of and still made it work.
He started his own painting business after having worked for another company years before for four years. He knew how to sell, what the customers wanted and how to get them to go with his company. He had hardly any capital to start with but that didn’t slow him down.
And he spent time building his business so that there is a team that runs it- and grows it- whether he comes in each day or not. All that is just the tip of the iceberg with him as well- very cool interview with a very interesting guy.
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Listen right here:
Matt: I am very excited to welcome to today’s podcast, Mr. Matt Shoup from mattshelp.com. He’s got an amazing and inspiring story. I am very happy that he’s agreed to come on and share with us. He’s also got some training coming up – a 52 week video series. I’ll let him tell you a little bit more about that. Thanks very much for taking the time to be on. Just kinda jump in with a little of your background, a little of your story and how you got to where you are today?
Matt S: Thanks, Matt! I am thankful and appreciative you had me on. So, let’s just jump in. I love it.
Matt: Cool. I know that you left the corporate job like many other people listening today either have already done or are planning to do. How did that work out for you?
Matt S.: I didn’t leave by choice. I look fast and I’m about to 11 years from my “leaving” but it was actually on [inaudible 0:04:44.5]. Technically, they either checked the “let him go” or “fire him” box. Backing up before that, I’ve always been an entrepreneur as a little kid. That was the only thing that gave me any kind of positive identity. I was goofy. I was skinny. I wasn’t good at sports. A girl didn’t like me. So, I always had this entrepreneurial. I knew I could outwork and outsell people from a young age. That led me into looking with a college painting company in college. It was not a sexy business. I was painting houses with the national college painting company and I’ve learned a lot. I made tons of money. I spend twice what I made and I’ve been traditioned into what I thought would be really cool, awesome looking business of selling mortgages. I literally find myself in March of 2005 sitting in a desk with a suit and tie, asked to sit down and shut down, just like they told me in school and I never did. I just don’t form and fit into this corporate banking environment. It was like I just want to smash my head at the wall every day. It was so far from me. So, I hated it. But it was paying the bills for me. That’s just what I was it. So, the bank brought in new management corporate leadership or whatever they call it. They came in one day and just said “Hey! Put your stuff in a box. Get out of this really quick, really swift.” I’d say maybe a little bit disrespectful that way they did it but whatever. I got laid off. I was about a hundred and sixty or seventy in debt and they let me go. All I had at that point is a box full of office supplies and a drive to still know that I could go out and just crash it in business. I needed to make $3000 in 30 days. So, I took the last hundred dollars that I had in the bank and I founded and started an e-painting.
Matt: Nice. I guess one of the points here is you have previous experience in that industry. You’ve been a worker not an owner. But you kinda knew how it works. You knew a little bit about how to sell it, how to deliver a good product and so, that was something you could go back to, not necessarily because you have a passion for house painting, at least at that time may be, but it was something you knew you could deliver with quality and that’s the place you’ve started. I think a lot of people kinda go with the “Well, I gotta come up with an amazing idea first and then I can start a business.” You already knew something you could do well and it was building the business that was your passion.
Matt S.: Correct. Yes. And I am always very clear and transparent when I founded MandD with that hundred dollars and then what seems to be at face value at the end of 2005 and half a million in revenue. It looks like an overnight success. But yes, I was 4 years in the making prior to that in the industry. And to answer the question, I hate painting. I am a bad painter. [Inaudible 0:07:32.2] not what I lean to. I encourage people to lean into their strengths and their leadership lirants. I would even say prior to the college teaching from the age of 9 to 10, I was taught at the very young age “If you want something, you want money, you want CD player, whatever you want, you need to work for it.” and I just learned how to work hard. What seemed yet to be this overnight sensation in Northern Colorado. They’re like “Who’s this MandD guy?” it was years in the making. But not, I didn’t just wake up in the morning having this phenomenal idea and not know about it.” I would encourage any of you listeners as I’m even rediscovering myself in this speaking and coaching field that I am in now, that’s also been about a decade in the making. Think that, what you’ve already been in the process of putting together and I think you’ll really find a lot of things as you venture throughout the business.
Matt: Yeah. It’s interesting. I’ve talked to quite a few people and a very recurring them is there are no overnight successes. It’s all hard work and perseverance and lessons learned and stumbling. If you keep at it, then you can definitely can make yourself to a big success but it doesn’t come overnight or even the first year. There’s always a lot of progress to it.
Matt S.: Absolutely. I would just encourage, side note, there’s a lot of stuff out there on the internet and social media where somebody is trying to sell you a quick simple fix to make it seem like there is or that they were an overnight success. [Inaudible 0:09:04.1] video post that he did. That’s very rare. You got to work at it. Odds are, every story, 99.99% of the time, they were just working before anybody about them absolutely.
Matt: So, as a house painter, I mean, obviously, you are not breaking into a brand new market with no competition, right? If anything, it’s the opposite. There’s a lot of guys who can pick up a brush and some blue painter’s tape and put themselves out there as a house painter. So, how do you differentiate – how do you land customers and make your business the one that wins bid and gets job and grows?
Matt S.: That’s a great question. I know with any business, you have to immediately know what is going to elevate you to the top. I’ll use the example of any industry. I call them bottom figures. Not that it is a bad thing, but its people competing on “Hey! We’re painters.”, “Hey! Were the lowest price.” There’s nothing that differentiate themselves. Literally, just like a bunch of sharks trying to kill each other at the bottom of the pond. There’d be scraps that are falling to the bottom. They are falling to the bottom from the companies that elevates up and they rise to the top. So, it’s just that slight degree on what makes you different will rise you above from what I call the bottom figures. For us, what that was is that – I didn’t think about it now. I went out there. Literally, it was 3:20pm. I got fired from the bank. I came home and by 3:37pm. I was out, just knocking on doors. I have no business cards. I didn’t think about it. I just went out and I just grinded and grown a half million of revenue. Then, I sat back and said “I fought way too hard. I fought harder. I didn’t fight smarter. What makes us different?” For us, what was it is for MandD painting is everybody else in town, everybody else really in the industry that I meet, the I coach now, they come to me and they say “Hey! I’m a painter. How can I be different as a painter?” We are entrepreneurs and leaders that happen to make money running a painting company. That’s all it took for us in this industry. Were business people that happen to paint. That gives the customer a totally different experience when they’re dealing with a business person than somebody that has identifies themselves just another painter.
Matt: Yeah. I think it’s pretty critical. Again, I’ve heard that from people on different formats. But if you think of it as a business that happens to provide whatever service it is vs. thinking about it just as a service, you’re immediately gonna start thinking about ways that you can differentiate, that you can stand out, that you can provide “wow” level of service and really, it doesn’t take much to stand out from the competition because most people are just kinda grinding away day-to-day without giving it much thought. By putting in some thoughts and some efforts into differentiating yourself, it really doesn’t take that much to do it. You just have to make the effort.
Matt S.: Absolutely. In this industry, I joke and it’s kind of a stereotype but it is truly is that [beep 0:12:08.0] better than 95% of the “painters” or the painting industry. You have to show up not drunk and make the customers feel good. That literally does not happen 95% of the time. Just that. Just make it happen and comb your hair and look nice. Show up on time. Don’t scare the kids. It literally separates you to the top 5%. Now from there, we said “Okay. There’s other companies here that treat it like a business. We need to go up by another degree further.” What I found and what we are as company is we are here to inspire and encourage the small business leaders. Everything that we do in our company, it is leadership. There’s inspiring and encouraging and then giving people massive action to lean into what their gifts are and then serve in the business while we paint. That’s where we even consider to continue to rise to the top and separate ourselves from those bottom figures.
Matt: Yeah. I think that’s huge, having your entire company culture on the same page and all focus towards serving the customer. That’s something I really emphasize in my business too. We’ve got different people in the company but everybody kinda feels like all the clients are everyone’s clients. Everybody’s goal is to make each client as successful as possible way beyond just the basic accounting that we do. We want to add as much value as possible. People really take that to heart and I think it’s make a huge difference. It sounds like you’re doing the same thing with your team as well.
Matt S.: We are, Matt. We have somebody called the [Creedo]. All that MandD painting is literally an extension of who I am as a man, what I stand for and what I hold value in. its life for us. It’s not just this little fancy mission statement that somebody read in a book or a video or whatever. I need to come up with a mission statement. If people will smell a fake and spot a fraud from a million miles away, that meaning that they write one thing on a nice sounding mission statement but they’re not living it. So, when we get out there and we do business, it really is. We attract. We create. We sell. Everything we do, we market our PR campaigns. We are all focused on. We are absolutely aligned with who we are and who we stand for. Then, I recruited people to fill on the blanks. So, I’m not a super technical guy. I don’t sit there and do spreadsheets and boxes and analyze data but you need that in business. So, when you recruit, you bring people in for the roles that need to be filled and the technical positions. The first thing we look for is that cultural creedo fit. Then, we look for skills at second.
Matt: That kinda leads to the next question, to the next point. There’s a lot of talking in various circles. I’m sure you hear it all the time too, about passive income. I think some of it, you know, I take with the grain and salt and a lot of it would go away in a few weeks, few months as if it was truly left on its own. But what you’ve done is you’ve built the management team that runs the business for you and now you have the freedom to choose how to spend your time and what you commit yourself to separate from your business. In fact on your website, you’ve said you’ve retired at the age of 34 which is awesome and which I think is a goal. If all entrepreneurs are shooting for that, whether you get there or not or whether you want to stay involved day-to-day because you have the passion in what you’re doing or whether you want to back out and do other things, the fact you can do it I think is what’s huge. How did you transitioned from being the guy knocking on doors and selling painting work and managing your own team to being able to build the team and step away from the business? How did that transition take place?
Matt S.: Wow! That’s a great questions and there’s so many questions and things that I can cover with that question. So, passive income, I’ll answer that first, passive income is something that you have to work day and day out. You do the work upfront then it continues to come in. there is a lot of passive income opportunities and things I’ve seen in the business. If you don’t continue working at it, the passive income dries up. Again, I was listening to [Inaudible 0:16:19.8] video. These guys just sit there and act like they’re sitting on a beach in Jamaica and smoking weed all day, just getting million dollars coming in their mailbox and they just stopped working isn’t really true. The way I transitioned from boots on the ground, banging on doors, is I figured out “Okay, Matt. My days just maxed out. What is the most effective, efficient version of Matt and what value do I bring to the company?” For me, it was meeting people and selling them something. So, when I got to the point of literally, if I was meeting people and selling them something 24/7 there’s only so much of that that I can do. Then, I started looking at where the blinds were in the business. My wiring is gonna bring all the money in the door but I can’t put it in bank accounts. [Inaudible 0:17:03.7]. So, I immediately found people that started filling in the voids that the business needed to operate from the back end to front end customer experience. And then, when I had too many opportunities coming in, I said something “I had to bring in a salesperson.” So, it’s literally, I got really clear on what my skill set, what gifts and my wirings were. I just worked. I just worked and worked and worked. Then, when I got to the point where I needed to duplicate, replicate that, I knew exactly what I needed and then I would train that person. Little by little, I brought in a project manager. That was never my strong suit. Then, that allowed me to sell more. When I got maxed out at selling, I then brought it a salesperson. The gist and the cliff notes of the whole story is when you can find people that gets your attention and you see potential in them to be better than you and then you make them better than you. They know that they can make decisions on your behalf that probably be better decisions that I can make, that’s when you can step out. Retirement, to me, is just being able to – literally today, I want to get out and talk to you on this podcast right now. I would prefer to be doing nothing else rather than this. I have the privilege after 2 decades of working hard to get up and be able to do what I want. I know I need to keep on working but its providing a phenomenal lifestyle for me and my family.
Matt: Yeah. And I think that’s what it’s really all about. I think the challenge is, as you said, to figure out what needs to be replaced, what things you can hand off successfully and then make sure that the person taking over from you can do a phenomenal job which is you hire the right person for that person. You give them the tools to do a great job. You give them the inspiration and understanding of how to make those decisions the way that you would’ve made them or as you said, even better than you would’ve made. They can be successful in that role. Then, you keep stepping back and stepping back until you got to a point where literally the organization can run for a weeks or months without your intervention and yet at the same time, not only survive, but continue to grow and expand. To me, that’s passive income. That is amazing. You can still jump in and you can give your input. You can be as active and involved as you want but if you aren’t, the wheels don’t stop turning. To me, that’s really where you hit success.
Matt S.: Absolutely. As we retouch that and you retouch very well, I got a good friend, Matt Dolstrum. He authored a book titled “Bloom” and he goes uncorporately speaking about all of these things as if you give somebody a role, you give them a position, you give them a role, you give them a bandwidth, a room and space and then knowing that they have the responsibility and you’re not gonna hang in with their own room. You give them the opportunity to go implement and do their role. Then, you let them fail. That’s the hardest thing for me. [Inaudible 0:20:02.6] I use a lot of tools with my coaching and I know that I am a very demanding, in-charge control freak. That was the hardest thing for me, letting go of that complete control. But when I do and I still freak out to this day but my team is on it. They are on it better than I am. But that’s always just something that I’m very conscious of. Everybody that listens to this, everybody’s gonna have a different leadership lean, leadership style and language. Throughout any of these experience that I’m giving to you, everybody’s gonna get tied up or road blocked in different ways. I encourage everybody to find out what their unique leadership language, style, and lean is. I’ve got a tool on my site you could use for free to do that. But everybody’s gonna win in certain places and they’re just gonna get stuck in other places based on how they wire.
Matt: That’s interesting. What you’ve done, what you’ve chosen to do now that you’ve built a team that can help you run the business without your full-time involvement is you’ve chosen to give back by working with small business owners in coaching and doing some speaking and other things. Tell me a little bit about that. What are you doing? How are you helping people? Who are good targets for your services? Who would benefit the most from what you’ve got to offer?
Matt S.: Yeah, no thank you. I love that. I’m at a place of my life where from a financial standpoint, I follow the [inaudible 0:21:27.8] and I’m really at end of these steps where I was thinking about my legacy and how much I want to leave behind and give kinda what I want my story to be. Literally, “retired” is my ideal day. I studied abroad in Spain years ago and the way this place and the story I’ve learned that if I fell in love with a country and the culture – I don’t know anybody that’s listening if you have ever traveled, I probably don’t need to share this – but you go to a place and I literally get to go to Spain. I could wake up every day. I would fly a couple of times and go to Spain, go hang out, have a strong Spanish coffee. I just sit there and I dreamed and I visioned. I disconnect from this culture and language and I go over there just dreaming about what life looks like. Then, I come back and I just get to work again. What I did the last couple times I went over there, I really feed in on my purpose why I’m here. I’m in the process of going through a life plan right now. I’m planning that I exist to inspire and encourage the small business owners. Anybody that would benefit just from my story and experience is a small business leader. Not just the business owner, all of your team members. If you’re running a team where you’re building a culture, attainability, entrepreneurial mindset and style on your leadership team, everybody within your business is a small business leader. Their business is whatever they need to do to make your business succeed to the degree that they can be phenomenal leaders and they are inspired and encourage, then that’s just that. They have actionable things that they can implement the second they hang up from this call that elevates everything – the rising tide lifts all boats. Literally, there is nothing that I’ve rather be doing with the rest of my life than waking up, having a Spanish coffee, talking to people about business, inspire them, encourage them and make a bunch of money so I can change lives and leave that story behind.
Matt: That’s awesome. Well, and also kicking some butt in jujitsu, right?
Matt S.: Sure. I like to show people. Part of my story. I always share the whole story because everybody sees the business story that I was growing up, I found purpose in business. But I mean, I got bullied man. Somebody sent me a message the other day telling me how I was such an example of a confident youth and I knew I was gonna grow up to be whatever I wanted to be. I smiled and I said “Thank you, but I was the most not confident, getting kicked on kind of guy.” I really stound also some purpose in place in martial arts especially crazy jujitsu. I trained under [inaudible 0:24:02.7]. That’s something – I wake up every day. I do business. I transitioned into helping and working with kids in our Academy. A lot of these kids are here every day. The bullying is crazy. The ability and social media to go out there and say something about somebody and have to stand there behind them to back them up, that can cut somebody deep. I’ve seen that first hand. I’ve seen that with some of these kids. That’s another thing that I love doing.
Matt: Well, I think entrepreneurial success comes from confidence as much as anything. When you’ve been bullied, or you’ve been cut down that way, it’s hard to have that self-confidence you needed to push yourself through the tough times and feel like you’re gonna make yourself a success. I think that’s an important thing that kids need to learn coming up too is to have that self-confidence and to know that they can achieve what they are trying to achieve and other people aren’t gonna be able to hold them back or hold them down from getting to where they want to be. One of the other things we mentioned at the beginning here was you’re working on a 52-week video course for entrepreneurs. Tell me a little bit more about what that’s gonna involved.
Matt S.: I’ve got 2 big things that I’m really working on right now. It’s the [inaudible 0:25:17.7] with Matt Podcast. Its gonna roll out at the end of May 2016. The other thing that literally rode alongside that is [inaudible 0:25:28.0] with matt. Its 52-weeks of video coaching. I’ve basically broken down everything I that have done in business to get me where I am today to 52 weeks, 52 modules, lessons, workshops of basic 100 level, 200 level and very advanced things that I did in business that all transitioned from starting off with your mindset all the way to high-end behavioral inspiration and motivation, how to read somebody, how to close somebody, but it’s very foundationally and it build all for itself. It is the curriculum that we use in MandD. It’s really a spin-off of that curriculum that other business has started asking about. So, now it’s something that another business can come and purchase. It’s worth the million bucks. It selling for a hundred thousand. So, I’m working on that really hard right now. The video coaching is gonna launch probably somewhere in the June and July timeframe. A lot of people had pre-purchased it now. So, I’m having a lot of fun. It’s just been a blast doing all these.
Matt: That’s awesome. In going back through that, in creating that, is there stuff or any particular lesson or advice you came across that you thought “Man, if somebody had told me that back then, it would’ve made a whole ton of difference to me.” Is there anything that sticks out along those lines?
Matt S.: You know, I’ll say, all 52 of them have a story behind it which I share in there. Let me share three, just right now snapped on the top of my mind. The first thing I see so many businesses that failed before they even get started. There is power in just the mindset that you need to wake up with every day – to have a mindset of winning, driving forward, not having [inaudible 0:27:21.5] focus, not only a focused mindset. An example of that is I was coaching a customer. They have a small business and they are failing on paper financially. We were going through all the tactical things. We do this. Cut this expense and drive this revenue. But what I saw is they didn’t need that help, they needed a mindset check. They had conditioned themselves for the past 20 years that life and business is based on where they came from and life experience that is not okay to win with money. The minute we win with money, meaning we get out of that, were financially free. We’re putting money away. That’s not okay. They were really concerned about what other people were gonna think or how the world would react. So, wrapping that up, that point right there is you gotta get that mindset right. If that fails, that is 101. That’s the first module in this coaching series. You can’t do the other 51 if your mindset is broken. That’s just the first basic one. The next one that I run into. This is a little bit more advanced that once you learn – say I was in marketing and I had to meet people – is shut up. Stop talking about yourself and telling people how great you are. Nobody’s gonna care about that. Nobody’s gonna care about your fancy piece of marketing or glitter shiny marketing brochure that tells you all the benefits of why your company is great. Everybody does that. Nobody’s gonna put out a bad resume. What I really found that others company don’t do as I call it “Share your baby story” is when you can get real with somebody and say “hey! Let me tell you about one of the worst most pissed off customer experience that we ever had.” Your competition will die to know about you so they can go share it. Right thinking that they are gonna get a customer buy from them because you’re so bad. I can share that story like [inaudible 0:29:06.1] on accident, on a job site. And it was bad. When that happened, I said “Oh my gosh! Did my competitors find out about this one? I’m dead. They’re gonna tear and shatter me in the middle of northern Colorado.” Then, I had a guy challenged me one day. He threw my shiny marketing brochure aside and he actually became a good friend and one of our favorite customers to work with. He’s like “this thing is crap. Tell me about you really screwed up and what you did about it.” That’s where when you get out with somebody your true value. Because when everything is going smooth and everybody is happy, of course you’re gonna look good. When there’s $5000 on the line, $100000 on the line, well something out there, you potentially could’ve injured a 9-month old baby and letting customers see what you did to show your true colors, that’s when you’re gonna get the rating fans. You might get a bad Google review initially but the way you handle those things, bad Google reviews are gold. You can really take that and leverage that to your advantage.
Matt: Yeah. That’s definitely a true story. Once in a while, I have a client ask for not a reference from a happy customer but a reference from somebody that is isn’t with us anymore. And I provide them. “This is what happened. This is what we did. This is why.” Nine times out of then, those clients – they become our clients because they can see that even when somebody isn’t with us anymore, we did everything and the person they’ve contacted is still okay referring us. So, I agree. If you handle something that went badly well, that’s way more to your credit I think than having a happy customer who writes a nice review and says everything was great because everybody has some of those.
Matt S.: This kinda drives me into the 3rd point. I started sharing a story how it ends. I’m finding out like “Wow! I’m closing a lot of business by sharing this. This is so against the grain of marketing 101. Share your ultimate challenge.” All of these stuff that they teach I think is great but some of those are truly setting people up to getting kicked pretty hard when they get to the real world. Humans react and they are wired in a community. They are inspired in different ways than what you might see in paper. So what we did, we took this even one step further. I said, “Okay. We’re sharing this one-to-one, company-to-customer.” But I’m just kinda crazy out of the box PR marketing guy. We actually took my daughter into the office. She was 3 at the time with true paint all over. We painted her, snaps and pictures. Then, we posted [inaudible 0:31:42.1] and get a huge PR campaign in 2013 to 2014 at [inaudible 0:31:50.3]. People are like “what is this?” and they are going to the website and were sharing them story. Our revenue spiked. Our net profit spiked because of that. Other painters were like “Your competition has nothing on you.” If you’re sharing your worst thing, this industry is filled with companies and every industry as where they cut their competitors down and make them [inaudible 0:32:13.5].” We just said, “Okay. That’s the worst thing you got. Now, what do you got?” it drove them down and drove us up even further. Then, the last point I’d share is just a story of David and goliath. When I started this business, a lot of people said “Matt, I see what you’re doing now.” They see that we have buses and ventures and we have millions of dollars free publicity that we get. But when I started, I leverage the resources that I had. There was a Goliath, 12 foot nasty giant that wanted to kills us. We had guys come to us and said “You better get out of town. I don’t know who you think you are. I’m gonna come and crush you and nothings gonna stop it.” So, I picked up a rock and swung it out there. I used the resources I had. It was very grounded and who I was and the face that I had in myself and in the business, and went to battle. Just that story of you used what you have to use it to your advantage and you can take out these big [inaudible 0:33:16.7] take out competition but you can really compete at a million, billion dollar level with a couple hundred bucks.
Matt: Yeah. That’s definitely true. Don’t be scared by the size of the competition. There’s lots of ways to beat him. You just have to be a little more creative and a little more aggressive and persevere but yeah. In fact, sometimes the biggest competitors are the easiest to beat because they don’t even see you coming. They don’t react. They are slow to change. It’s the way they do things. By the time that they figured out that you’re a threat, you already knocked them off.
Matt S.: And then when you get there, when you become the Goliath, not in the big bully perspective, but when you become the Goliath, that’s where we are now, we’re the big company and I stood up and I wake up every day and I talk to my leadership team and I said “There is another 19, 20, 21 year old Matt that’s getting from something, that sees what I did and listen to me in the podcast and they’re coming after us.” So, when you get to that point, it’s the same mindset. Just continue to separate yourself from what everybody else was doing. Try new things. Just have different resources but still going back to those basics of work with what you have and don’t forget where you came from. That’s been our most important thing. In fact, I have a hundred dollar bill in a frame sitting in my desk. Every time I look at that, I remember exactly where we came from and what we did to get to where we’re at.
Matt: Definitely a good lesson. Staying humble is always a good thing to do in the business no matter how big you’ve gotten. With that, let me say thanks again for taking the time to join me today. For people who are interested in finding out more and getting some information on your coaching and your other programs, what’s the best place for them to find you?
Matt S.: Thanks, Matt! Everything can be found at my website, mattshoup.com.
Matt: Awesome! And I’ll have the link for that in the show notes. Thanks so much for sharing your story. It’s always cool to hear people coming up starting from the bottom and building their way up. I think, as I said, you’ve not only been successful, but to me, you’ve really reached the pinnacle of success where you’ve built this management team to run things. And now, you have the freedom, not only financial freedom, but freedom of time which is even more valuable, to really choose how you live your life and what to do it. I think that’s just awesome. Thanks for sharing your story! I truly appreciate it.
Matt S.: Thanks, Matt!